Lead-Lag Live: Ross Atefi, Yatra Wealth Design

Transcript

Going Live And Setting Scope

SPEAKER_00 0:02

All right, folks. As always, give me a second. I want to make sure that uh we are indeed streaming live. I have been back to back. Just got off of a uh fairly sizable uh what we call advisor connects discussion with a bunch of advisors at the Lead Lag Media Network talking about the great wealth transfer. And now I've got another uh great advisor who's gonna be talking about all aspects of the financial journey, the sacred journey, uh, which we'll get into. Uh my friend, Mr. Ross Defense. For those that are watching this on YouTube on X, I can see your comments. Yes, it is live. So if you want to engage, ask questions. This is not gonna be sort of a uh a conversation around market calls or market analysis. This is much more about planning and coordinating and how to think about your financial journey in life, which I think is important from a bigger picture perspective beyond the day-to-day noise and trading activity that you see on social media. So, with all that said, my name is Michael Guy. I'm the publisher of the Lead Lag Report, founder of Lead Lag Media. Joining me is Mr. Ross Atuffy of Yatra, uh wealth design Yatra, which of course uh I didn't know this until I actually visited your website. Sacred journey. So uh introduce yourself to the audience and uh talk about why this is this sacred journey, this journey of investing

Why Money Can Be A Sacred Journey

SPEAKER_00 1:10

in financial management.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah, thanks for having me on, Michael. Um so yeah, Yatra means a sacred journey. And you know, one one interesting aspect of a yatra is it's not just about the destination, it's about the uh the journey, right? So along the way. And the way we think of financial planning is, you know, we're we're guiding you on your sacred journey through life. So the first aspect of that is figuring out what that really looks like for you. Um, you know, what does your sacred journey look like? What do you, what do you like, what would you like to see uh in your financial life, in your goals? Uh what kind of, you know, and and then we go to wealth, uh, which is the second word in our in our name, theatre wealth design. And wealth is obviously financial wealth, but you know, people have different definitions of wealth and what a wealthy life looks like. So your wealthy life may be different from mine, or I'm sure it is. Um, some people value time and freedom, some people value financial aspects more, some people value, you know, time with their family and health, you know, whatever the mix of everything that matters to you from a you know wealth perspective.

The Hidden Cost Of Poor Coordination

SPEAKER_01 2:15

And then design really focuses on the fact that it's a multifaceted approach. And this is where the this is where the coordination comes in. And this is probably the biggest area that um that we add value. And I think the biggest issue that I see with, let's say, high-income business owners and executives that we work with is that you know, a lot a lot of people are doing a good job with the different aspects of their financial life individually. So they might have some investment strategy set up, they might have some tax preparation that they do, uh, they might have some, you know, donate donate donation strategy that they they have. They maybe they have a business cash flow strategy, but coordinating all aspects of their financial life is is oftentimes being missed. Uh, and frankly, all of those different aspects of the financial life are are tightly integrated and um you know impact each other. So if you don't integrate those different aspects, you're missing planning opportunities. And um it that can generate or or miss out on tens to even hundreds of thousands of dollars over time.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

All right, so I think this is interesting because um I think most people would say uh the only thing that matters is the actual dollar value of their account, right? But um, in reality, to your point, it's much more multifaceted and much more nuanced, right? So let's go over some of the different things that you find people don't focus on when it comes to thinking about managing their wealth and why they should work with an advisor.

Proactive Tax Planning Before Year-End

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, so I mean, just as an example, like a lot of people work with accountants and and you know, we we work with accountants as well. Uh, a lot of times the the tax uh that that they're doing is more of a preparation, meaning they're you know preparing the tax return uh around the prior year, right? So the year's already happened and they're kind of saying, okay, what can we do to reduce our taxes in the prior year? Um, but what we what we do for clients is we actually model out your uh tax situation for the current year. So let's say this year is 2026. So before the year's over, we're gonna model out what your income looks like this year, what your deductions will likely look like this year based on what you're currently doing, and what that's gonna mean from a tax perspective. So, you know, higher income earners, especially once you get over, let's say, 500,000 plus, um, sometimes you can see really giant leaps in taxes. Um, so it's not kind of like a gradual climb, it's sort of an exponential leap at uh at certain points. And so what we do is we say, okay, you know, what what is your tax situation going to look like this year based on how we're tracking? Uh, and what strategies can we implement before the year's over? Because that's where you have the most flexibility, is before the the calendar year is over. Um, what strategies can we implement to improve that? And in some cases, we're able to avoid triggering you know much higher tax rates or missing, you know, losing deductions. Uh, for example, the the higher state and local tax deduction, um, that's that's a big deduction. And if you you know make too much from a tax perspective, you can lose that whole deduction. Um, obviously there's there's other you know triggers as well, like the higher uh Medicare deduction, uh, you know, tax rates and um there's QBI for business owners. So there's a bunch of uh kind of nuances there. But you know, there if if we're still in the calendar year, there's a lot of strategies that we could implement, um, whether that's charitable giving or retirement planning and retirement plan you know implementation. Um, it could even be how you're managing the portfolio, right? I mean, if you have a year where uh you you can make decisions around the portfolio and potentially increase or decrease your tax liability there, that all feeds into the bigger picture of what your tax situation is going to look like. And you know, that's why I kind of said all the different aspects are are important because if if your portfolio is not being managed or or assessed um with your tax situation, you might actually be making some mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

All right, so so um again, this is an area that I'm not that familiar with, which is probably why I'm asking these questions. But um you mentioned all these different strategies or approaches to the tax management side.

How To Find A Real Tax Strategist

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Um that sounds really domain-specific, like very domain-specific knowledge, right? So if I'm somebody that's curious about this you know way of approaching my own wealth and managing the tax side of it and the strategies involved, I don't even go about finding somebody who has that knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah, well, I mean, I think you want to talk to an advisor who speaks fluently in that area, and uh it really has a process around it, right? So, so when we when we work with with clients, um, you know, the first thing we're gonna do is get it get an assessment of, again, like prior tax returns and and how they're tracking for this current year. And we can, you know, assess on the spot, um, you know, let's say with with someone we're we're just talking with, we can assess potentially some ways that we could have potentially improved the prior year or that we could potentially improve this year. Um, so I think I think you want to talk with an advisor who who has that kind of you know knowledge and um works and and and is uh you know has has the knowledge around the different strategies that you can employ. And you know, of course, there's different strategies for business owners than there are for executives. Um, there's different strategies for people with RSUs and stock options, and there are again for business owners, uh, or or even let's say someone who's close to retirement or already in retirement. So um you, you know, I a lot of let's say advisors, including accountants and and investment people, they kind of live in their own silo. And if you're looking for that more coordinated approach, you want to work with an advisor who um has, you know, takes that approach.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Talk to me about how you keep up to date with a lot of these things. I've assumed, I mean, tax codes change, tax laws change, right? And yeah, it's not as simple as like you go into AI and you ask ChatGPT, you know, what do I do? Right. I mean, how do you even go about uh keeping yourself up to date on this stuff?

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I do a lot of research and and uh reading in this space. Um, so there's you know, there's a lot of uh different resources that you could go to. Obviously, you you make really good content, but there's there's a lot of resources that's more tax um, you know, focused. Um and so, you know, I I just do a lot of research to try to keep up to date with how this these things are changing. And then, you know, let's say like the with the one big beautiful bill um that that made some uh big changes to the tax code that just you know got passed recently. And um there's a lot of a lot there really a lot to learn and a lot of new strategies and new deductions and new phase outs that you know you have to be kind of become aware uh aware of. Um but the good thing is again, there's a lot more benefit even of making good you know tax decisions. So I it's just uh it's a lot of research and um and reading, I would say. And and then and then of course having the practical knowledge of like, okay, we have these clients, how do we utilize this knowledge to help them?

What Tax Savings Can Look Like

SPEAKER_00 9:31

When we talk about these types of strategies, I mean, what's what's like a range of savings, right? Because again, I go back to you, people think in terms of pure investment return in their portfolio, but um it's it's like the old thing, it's not what you make, it's what you keep, right? So from your own experiences and your own client, you know, what what what types of numbers you know are saved or percentages of a total portfolio?

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah, I mean, I you know, just uh we kind of wrote an article recently about a business owner that uh we did this kind of planning with, and the the total tax savings all in was about a hundred thousand. Um and their you know, their their income was closer to you know five mid mid $500 to $600,000 range. Um and so yeah, that it can be quite quite significant. And when I say you know, savings, it's like, okay, if they didn't do anything versus if they implement this the strategies that we discussed, the savings were you know, let's say roughly in in that range. Um and so that's that's the kind of numbers that we're talking about. Now I can't, you know, can't say every client is is like that. It really depends. Some clients, um, there's not as many opportunities, and in some cases, there are really large opportunities, but because of the way the tax code is structured, um, and it's it's not magic, it's just literally that there's different you know, phase outs and higher, you know, higher points that trigger higher taxes, et cetera. Um, and there there are you know a lot of very legitimate ways um to to reduce the the tax uh that you pay. So that that's the you know that's kind of how I'd look at it.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

All right, so the person comes up to you, high net worth, they don't want to make the government a beneficiary, right, to their uh to their assets. You come up with some tax planning strategies, you save them the money.

The Middle Path In Investing

SPEAKER_00 11:20

The the journey doesn't end there, right? So what else is involved in terms of the go forward plan to help somebody grow their assets?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, so of course the tax plan uh planning, you know, that's that's a big component of it. But we you know, we we also manage clients' portfolios and investments. Um and you know, when we think about that, I think you know it it again comes back to coordination, right? So one thing I've noticed is uh a lot of clients and advisors, they they seem to have kind of one of two, I would consider a little bit more extreme versions of investment management, which is you know, it's like either A, we're not gonna do anything and just kind of leave it indefinitely, um, or B, we're gonna make huge changes all the time based on you know what they read yesterday or you know, kind of vibes or feelings. And and and and and I think, you know, there there's a there's a middle path. Um, and so the way we approach it is we first look at what are the clients' goals and financial plan. So, you know, what are what is the money for essentially? Uh and you might have dick different buckets of of money and and investments. So you might have some money that's for retirement and some money that's for you know business liquidity, just in case something comes up in the business that you need the money for. Maybe it's a future home purchase, maybe it's you know, legacy planning for your kids, um, maybe it's for charitable giving, right? So, so you know what what are the different buckets of your money for? And what's what's the plan look like five, 10, 20 years out? Um, so we first need to consider that. Second is what are what is your risk tolerance, right? So, how much comfort do you have with risk? And frankly, you know, you you might have different comfort levels of risk for different buckets of money, right? So we want to kind of coordinate that aspect as well, because the last thing we want to do is either take too much or too little risk, right? Um, with with certain buckets. And then you're kind of looking at it and saying, hey, how come we're not making enough? Or, you know, on the flip side, it's like, hey, the market went down and suddenly my portfolio is down a lot and I need the money, you know, to buy a house, right? So you're kind of surprised about that. So we got to, you know, we got to coordinate again what the money's for and also what your comfort level is with risk, because you know, we don't want it things to be down, and then you're you're panicking and and uh you know, we making something and a decision that's not well thought through. And then the the third aspect is of course the market environment. Uh and so the way we we look at that is uh we're gonna look at okay, what do valuations look like in markets and different asset classes, uh, what's liquidity in markets today, where are interest rates at, what you know, credit conditions, market breadth, like where where are the opportunities and where are the risks? And try to make um intelligent you know decisions around how to invest and stay diversified. That's still you know coordinating all the other aspects that we just discussed.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

What's more fun for you? Uh looking at markets and investing or doing the the creative tax strategy planning?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

I mean, you know, I I would I I I would personally enjoy investing uh a little bit more, just you know, purely for uh for myself, but I would say that you know, again, some of the the biggest value it probably comes from the tax planning. So I I enjoy I enjoy both, but if I had to pick one, I'd say investments a little bit more.

Who Needs This Kind Of Planning

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Talk to me about the uh the kind kinds of clients that that come to you. I mean, are they are they younger, are they older, are they savvy on tax planning, are they savvy on investing? What what type of person comes to you?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So it would it would be the folks that are um either you know in their peak earning years, uh as I mentioned, you know, let's say 500,000, 700,000, even a million plus of of income annually, and they're they're saying, hey, I'm I'm successful, I'm I'm earning a great income, um, you know, maybe I have a successful business. Uh, and you know, I know I have these different pieces that I put in place, but I'm looking for someone to help take things to the next level and really coordinate all aspects of my financial life. So that that would be one person, and then um the other person could be someone who is uh also potentially in their peak earning years and successful, but also maybe you know approaching uh retirement and looking to integrate that aspect of planning to their situation. So, you know, they're five years out, and what what kinds of changes do they need to make um to their investments and their tax plan and everything to account for the fact that they want to or likely will be retiring in the in the relatively near future?

Avoiding Tax Misinformation Online

SPEAKER_00 16:17

What do people get most wrong when it comes to figuring out a a uh a creative way to save money from the government?

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Uh what did what do they get wrong the most? I think people assume that there's either some sort of like magic strategies, um, you know, there's a lot of misinformation online, frankly, uh around you know, tax strategies. And you know, that the difference between, you know, like a real tax plan versus like, hey, I got this tip from this person um online is that like what you know one you know strategy or you know, kind of may not apply to you, right? So um there's there's a lot of misinformation and there's a lot of kind of like very nuanced aspects of this stuff. And if you think that, you know, every single tax strategy, quote unquote, works for you, you know, it it probably doesn't, and and you can kind of get yourself in trouble there. So having someone actually look it over and and create a real plan, um, that's that's the key because you know obviously we want to save money on taxes, but we don't want to do anything that's gonna set you up for uh you know a bad result with the IRS or something like that. So so you you you gotta have um you know a customized tax plan. And some of the more extreme things that we see out there on the internet um oftentimes either you know don't apply or you know, you have to be extremely careful with that kind of stuff.

How To Reach Ross And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Uh Ross, for those who want to uh learn more about your practice and uh find ways of engaging to do, uh how word would you point them to?

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, so you can go to my website. It's yatra y-a-t-ra-a wealthdesign.com and and check us out and you know, feel free to send us a message there. Uh or feel free to email me, uh Ross R O S S at yatrawealthdesign.com. And we'd love to have a conversation with you and just take a look at what you're doing with your current situation and see if if there's you know some way we can help.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Uh it's a good problem to have to deal with uh uh taxes, uh, to even argue and and finding creative ways of not having to uh pay as much. And if you're uh somebody that is in that position, uh learn more on Ross and his work at Yatra. Uh appreciate those that watch this live. Uh again, this will be a podcast, like always. And uh you might even see some shorts around this uh as uh we help Ross get the word out. So thank everybody for watching, and we'll see you all in the next episode of Lead Lag Live.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Thanks for watching. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Cheers, everybody. Hey, give it a second.